#mr. collins's proposal

[mollywog]

Something I find funny about Jane Austen is: she doesn’t f*ck around with dialogue she doesn’t want to write (AKA: end-game main character proposals/acceptances)

Emma/Mr. Knightly

She spoke then, on being so entreated.—What did she say?—Just what she ought, of course.

Lizzie/Mr. Darcy

Elizabeth, feeling all the more than common awkwardness and anxiety of his situation, now forced herself to speak; and immediately, though not very fluently, gave him to understand that her sentiments had undergone so material a change, since the period to which he alluded, as to make her receive with gratitude and pleasure his present assurances.

Elinor/Edward

How soon he had walked himself into the proper resolution, however, how soon an opportunity of exercising it occurred, in what manner he expressed himself, and how he was received, need not be particularly told. This only need be said;—that when they all sat down to table at four o'clock, about three hours after his arrival, he had secured his lady, engaged her mother's consent, and was not only in the rapturous profession of the lover, but, in the reality of reason and truth, one of the happiest of men.

Anne/Captain Wentworth

Charles was at the bottom of Union Street again, and the other two proceeding together: and soon words enough had passed between them to decide their direction towards the comparatively quiet and retired gravel walk, where the power of conversation would make the present hour a blessing indeed, and prepare it for all the immortality which the happiest recollections of their own future lives could bestow. There they exchanged again those feelings and those promises which had once before seemed to secure everything, but which had been followed by so many, many years of division and estrangement. There they returned again into the past, more exquisitely happy, perhaps, in their re-union, than when it had been first projected; more tender, more tried, more fixed in a knowledge of each other’s character, truth, and attachment;

Catherine/Henry

Some explanation on his father's account he had to give; but his first purpose was to explain himself, and before they reached Mr. Allen's grounds he had done it so well that Catherine did not think it could ever be repeated too often. She was assured of his affection; and that heart in return was solicited, which, perhaps, they pretty equally knew was already entirely his own;

Fanny/Edward Edmund

I purposely abstain from dates on this occasion, that every one may be at liberty to fix their own, aware that the cure of unconquerable passions, and the transfer of unchanging attachments, must vary much as to time in different people. I only entreat everybody to believe that exactly at the time when it was quite natural that it should be so, and not a week earlier, Edmund did cease to care about Miss Crawford, and became as anxious to marry Fanny as Fanny herself could desire.

[windowsandfeelings]

Oh Mr Darcy, you and your complete lack of emotional intelligence.

[whats-in-a-sentence]

The discussion of Mr. Collins's offer was now nearly at an end, and Elizabeth had only to suffer from the uncomfortable feelings necessarily attending it, and occasionally from some peevish allusions of her mother.

"Pride and Prejudice" - Jane Austen

[saucymincks]

My favorite part of watching any Jane Austen adaptation is seeing which characters are autistic in this version

[widowshill]

was thinking about r/v au and particularly this line in rebecca, how despite his being married twice, both weddings were in the category of the former ––  to laura, rushed in the days after the trial to reward her cooperation, and then to exile in augusta –– and then to cassandra, similarly quick and clinical the day after he met her. and v of course very nearly had the dream wedding at collinwood, only for it to rot down in bradford's grave into only the bones of a 3 am visit to the courthouse. how they neither of them have really experienced a wedding or marriage as concept as celebration in earnest, not only as a ceremony of romantic love but bonding into the family, to home and the threshold. how each of their prior marriages were hollow façades, as with maxim and rebecca –– to a phoenix, to a witch wearing a false name, to a centuries old ghost –– whereas, with each other, if not happily ever after an earthly grasp at happiness.

[firawren]

He certainly respects her by the second proposal, but you've conflated the two proposals. The line about one word will silence him forever comes from the second proposal, for instance.

Because he certainly does not just shut up and respect her decision in the first proposal.

He is not as blatantly dismissive of her decision as Mr. Collins is, but this seems to be more that he's not an idiot like Mr. Collins, not that he's significantly more respectful.

He's completely astonished that she says no, and rather than just saying "I guess I misjudged things, I'll leave you alone now," and leave, or even just saying, "Wow that's not what I expected, do you mind telling me why?"—no, instead of either of these respectful responses, he goes with disbelieving snark:

“And this is all the reply which I am to have the honour of expecting! I might, perhaps, wish to be informed why, with so little endeavour at civility, I am thus rejected. But it is of small importance.”

In other words, "Seriously?! Maybe I should ask why you're being such a bitch." He stays and rudely asks her to explain herself, because her answer is bonkers to him. He's not an idiot like Mr. Collins, he knows she's not playing, but he doesn't pay her the respect of believing she has good reasons for her answer or accepting it at face value.

Then, even after she gives him her reasons, he still doubts that she is sincere:

["]But, perhaps,” added he, stopping in his walk, and turning towards her, “these offences might have been overlooked, had not your pride been hurt by my honest confession of the scruples that had long prevented my forming any serious design. These bitter accusations might have been suppressed, had I, with greater policy, concealed my struggles, and flattered you into the belief of my being impelled by unqualified, unalloyed inclination; by reason, by reflection, by everything.["]

In other words, "You don't really care that much about those supposed reasons you gave, you're just pissed off that I didn't simp."

And then after this, she tells him he's wrong and says no a couple more times, and he still is astonished! It takes him a very long time to let Elizabeth get through to him.

It's actually a key part of Darcy's character growth that he is not respectful of Elizabeth during this first proposal. It contrasts so beautifully with his second proposal because of this.

Someone who loves you truly will always respect you. I was re-reading Pride and Prejudice and this is what occured to me.

Mr. Collins didn't love Lizzy and that's why didn't respect her decision of refusing his proposal. He kept on saying all kind of illogical things, trying to convince her to change her decision, wasn't at all discouraged by her and kept on pestering her to accept him.

He didn't give in to Lizzy's resolve to refuse him. He didn't consider her determined and wise enough to make the best decision for herself. He kept on mistaking her refusal for the affectation and coquetry of an elegant female because he didn't hold Lizzy and her opinions in a position to be respected.

While Mr. Darcy, being truly in love with Lizzy, insulted her connections and status(he surely was very arrogant) but respected her decision of blatantly refusing him. He retrospected the events he was accused of and offered her an explanation but without pressuring her to change her mind. He again mentioned that one word from her would silence him on this subject forever. He believed her reasons for rejecting him and respected her decision.

He considered Lizzy's social status beneath himself but never doubted her intelligence or capability to make right decision for herself. He knew she was smart, accomplished and trusted her judgement. DARCY RESPECTS LIZZY.

WHO LOVES YOU, WILL ALWAYS RESPECT YOU.

Thank you so so much for coming to my half-witTED TALK.

P.S. - True P&P fans can romanticize every single event of the novel. :)

[tyrannosaurus-trainwreck]

Sorry, still not over Darcy critical-failing that proposal! Not that sorry, though. I have no idea why Pride and Prejudice hits so hard when most of Austen's other novels are like "They're fine! I like them! Anyway..." for me.

But, here's the thing. Darcy is being an asshole. Darcy isn't an asshole, generally, but he's really being one about his whole Regency Era situationship with Lizzie. Like, he rolls in on day one with this giant fucking chip on his shoulder, acts like he's too good for everyone, and why? Well, he's rich, and he's got lofty connections.

Except who's he rolling with right then? His spineless dustmop of a bestie and his bestie's godawful sisters. Bingley's the sort of guy who can be peer-pressured out of being in love!

Like, you know that thing where you have a friend, and they introduce you to another friend, and that friend is such a wet sock that you find yourself reevaluating your friend because they're hanging around with this guy? Like, okay, Darcy, do you have friends, or do you have toadies? Is this your bestie, or did you find a gentleman's companion that you didn't have to pay?

Later on we meet his aunt, who's the goddamned worst.

Like, we all hate Mr. Collins, right? This woman has Mr. Collins over twice a week for a quiet evening of performative dickriding. That's the kind of taste Darcy's family has. Voluntarily spending hours with Mr. Collins on a regular basis.

There's no talking about Mrs. Bennet's lack of decorum or matrimonial grasping or entitlement without talking about Lady Catherine flying in on her broom to scream at her nephew's fiancee, right? Especially considering that her basis for doing so is a cradle engagement that she seems to have never spoken to her nephew about as an adult and a fucking rumor that she assumes pertains to Lizzie.

She doesn't even talk to her fucking nephew before spending half a day in a carriage to make a blazing spectacle of herself in front of the entire Bennet household! He finds out she did that afterwards when she tries to make him break off the nonexistent engagement that she's announced to half the fucking kingdom by that point.

I mean, unexpected point to Mrs. B, who notably did not even walk down the road to Netherfield to act disappointed at anyone.

Also hard to get on too high a horse after Georgiana's near-elopement with the country's biggest asshole! Like, oh, the Bennet sisters are embarrassing? The Bennets lack propriety?

Buddy, you hired a sex trafficker to look after your sister and then your sister almost fucked the one-man-crime-wave son of your late property-manager. And you didn't even manage to hush it all up properly! Sure, he's keeping your sister's name out of his mouth, but he's running you down like a dog in every other respect to the whole county!

Like, "Oh, look at me, I'm Fitzwilliam Darcy! I'm not going to lower myself to correcting any of The Plebes who now think I deliberately misadministered a will to fuck over The Help out of cheapness and spite, especially when all it would take is one conversation with That Fucker's commanding officer, but god forbid I ever have to go out in public with a Bennet! I might die of shame and secondhand cringe!"

So he's got all of that going on, and then he busts in on Lizzie with a proposal that's got huge "I don't consent to being attracted to you" energy and runs her entire family into the ground. This is after Lizzie's spent approximately three centuries being negged by his mannerless nightmare of an aunt, so that's at least one extra level of "Really, bruh?" in there.

And then he fucking claps back at her rejection! Instead of going "Oh. Huh. Whoops. Guess I'll just have to go marry one of the other ten thousand women lined up waiting to marry me!" he's like "What the fuuuuck did I ever do to you, you fucking menace?". At which point she checks him so hard he spends the next three months bluescreening and looking up how to be polite to people you haven't already known for five years.

So like I said, he is being an asshole here. He knows how to act right, he just hasn't bothered to do so once since posting up in Netherfield because idk, he's on vacation or some shit.

Critically! However upsetting Lizzie finds The Proposal Incident (half-hour crying jag, spends the rest of the day hiding in her room), she is at no point worried about Darcy's subsequent behavior.

This is while she still thinks he genuinely did Wickham dirty and before she's had a chance to get character references from the 500 people working at Pemberley. This is the guy about whom her dad later says "Kidding-not kidding I can hardly say no to this rich fuck, can I?" when asked for his blessing. This is after Mr. Collins literally said "I've heard no means yes these days" to her fucking face and then her mother tried to make her marry him anyway.

She preached a full on sermon about the man's shortcomings to his face immediately after saying she wouldn't bounce on his dick if it was the last one on earth and after the adrenaline crash wasn't like, "Fuck. Fuck. Fuuuuuuuck my entire life, he's going to burn down the vicarage and frame my father for tax fraud."

Everything that she's seen with her own eyes about this snobby bastard tells her he's not going to go crying to his aunt and get her cousin's patronage revoked. He's not going to go out of his way to fuck her or her family over. He's pissed, and he was definitely playing the ass with that proposal, but he's not going to lash out over it.

So this is Lizzie seeing Darcy at Peak Asshole, with extra assholery that he didn't even do but he couldn't be bothered to tell anyone he didn't do, and Lizzie's still like "omg you're such a fucking prick, how do you even get out of bed in the morning" instead of "Well, RIP to my prospects, there's no way that man doesn't have the lot of us consigned to a convent by parliamentary decree now."

[joybank]

.

[warrioreowynofrohan]

Starting a reread of Pride and Prejudice and keeping an eye out for some things that have been mentioned by the Austen fandom:

1) The Bennets do not seem so notably wealthy – by gentry standards – as has been suggested by parts of the fandom, nor does Mr. Bennet in particular seem so blameable in not having saved a more substantial inheritance for his daughters.

The Bennets have two thousand a year for 7 people. This is, IIRC, a little over twice per person what the Dashwoods have in Sense & Sensibility (500 pounds a year for four people), and the Dashwoods are very much at the low end of the gentry. It’s about half what is considered a notably rich member of the gentry in this book or others (five thousand a year, like Mr. Bingley has, or four thousand a year which is, I think, what Henry Crawford has).

Also, it seems like Mr. Bennet is impeded in his management of the estate by Mrs. Bennet, from this line from Mr. Bennet (when Mrs. Bennet is urging him to use the pretext of the horses being needed for the farm to not send Jane to Netherfield in the carriage, so she will be obliged to stay overnight if it rains): “They [the horses] are wanted in the farm much oftener than I can get them.” Combined with the early narratorial statement that the solace of Mrs. Bennet’s life is “visiting and news”, this suggests conflicts between her using the horses for visiting purposes and the needs of the horses for the farm. (Though I wouldn’t have expected carriage-horses to overlap with farm work much.)

Mr. Bennet feels less like someone who is by inclination negligent, and more like someone who has, over 20+ years, grown tired of re-fighting the same battles over and over with his wife (who is incapable of absorbing any idea that is counter to her own inclinations), and largely given up. He baits his wife, but he does do some necessary things promptly: after insisting to his wife that he will not visit Mr. Bingley, he is in fact “among the earliest” to do so.

I see Mr. Bennet not as an unsympathetic character, but as the “failure state” of both Elizabeth and, in a lesser way, Darcy: this is who you become if you have no one close to you whom you respect as a peer. (Darcy wouldn’t be as openly mocking, but his interactions with Miss Bingley when Elizabeth is at Netherfield – brief and curt – give a flavour of what he’s like around someone he’s close to who is bothering him.) Elizabeth likes her father; he visits her regularly after her marriage and there’s no indication either her or Darcy mind; but his life isn’t the future we want for Elizabeth. Nor is it the future he wants for Elizabeth, as we see with his response to both Mr. Collins’ proposal and Elizabeth’s telling him of her engagement to Darcy.

2) I’m noticing the connections between Elizabeth’s and Darcy’s early conversations more this time. For example, on one evening at Netherfield they debate whether a plable temper (Bingley’s) isca good bad thing, with Elizabeth saying that being easily convinced by your friends of matters of no great import, based on your affection for them, is amiable. In a later conversation at Netherfield, Darcy says (in comment on his non-mockable faults): “My temper I dare not vouch for. – It is I believe too little yielding – certainly too little for the convenience of the world…My feelings are not puffed about with every attempt to move them.” This feels like a response to what Elizabeth was saying earlier, meaning their conversation (in contrast to Miss Bingley’s mix of flattering him and twitting him about Elizabeth, it is one where he’s being argued with; he seems to prefer that) has stuck in his head.

On a funnier note, the earlier conversation had Darcy condemning humblebrags (“Nothing is more deceitful than the appearance of humility. It is often only carelessness of opinion, and sometimes an indirect boast”), but I suspect that he’s engaging in it here, and actually prides himself on his resoluteness.

3) While Miss Bingley isn’t a villainness, she’s certainly an unpleasant person. She’s mean, she’s two-faced (mocking her “friend’s” relatives behind her back while her “friend” is sick, though being usually kind and courteous to her face), and she doesn’t have enough sense or perception to pick up on when her flattery towards Darcy and her insults towards Elizabeth are annoying Darcy.

4) Elizabeth gives very little indication of being a bookworm (nor a tomboy), in contrast to some characterizations. Even in the scene where her reading is mentioned, she is in fact largely ignoring the book in favour of paying attention to the conversation at the card table; she picked up the book more out of prudence (the card game is gambling and she guesses they are betting too much for her means) than intrinsic interest. In two other scenes at Netherfield – during the few times she is not tending to Jane – she is doing needlework. Her muddy walk to Netherfield is inspired by affection for Jane and desire not to use the carriage needlessly, not by a love of muddy walks.

5) Despite some posts I’ve seen on use of Lizzy vs Eliza as nicknames for Elizabeth Bennet (Lizzie is more common), both Charlotte Lucas and Miss Bingley do refer to her as Eliza at some points.

[anghraine]

#fascinating#that does change lizzy’s rejection of Mr Collins I think#that is to say they do in theory have a safety net#which at least ensures lizzy doesn’t feel the need to accept out of desperation#(in addition to her gamble that Bingley will propose to Jane thus providing another safety net (via @obi-wann-cannoli)

It does! The idea that Elizabeth is being either very brave or very romantic in refusing Mr Collins because the stakes are so high is, IMO, not really reflective of Elizabeth's thought process or even the narrative treatment of the episode in the novel.

I don't think there's even evidence that Elizabeth is gambling anything with her assumption that Jane/Bingley will happen, or that Elizabeth cares about Jane/Bingley for any reason except Jane's happiness. I'm not sure she ever experiences much anxiety about the future at all until the Lydia situation threatens it.

The rejection of Mr Collins is not really treated as high-stakes drama by anyone except Mr Collins and Mrs Bennet, the stupidest people involved. Of course, it's not unimportant. The ways in which Elizabeth has to simply endure him and then endure his succession of insults without complaint are certainly not unrelated to the handling of gender in the novel, there's foreshadowing (most obviously of Darcy's proposal, which I think is not quite as bad but far worse to experience for Elizabeth, and even Elizabeth's own later pining gets foreshadowed in her rejection of Mr Collins). But the Mr Collins subplot is, IMO, treated as fundamentally comic right up to the moment that Charlotte accepts him. That's where the drama comes from.

It's not that Elizabeth will ever be in Charlotte's position and just doesn't realize until she comes to terms with Charlotte's choice. She never fully comes to terms with Charlotte's marriage (she's still sure after leaving Kent that Charlotte will regret her decision someday, although she clearly hasn't yet), and in reality, Elizabeth will never be in Charlotte's position.

Elizabeth is pretty, she's always been a gentleman's daughter, and she has supportive and fairly wealthy if low-status extended family where Charlotte has no resources of that kind. Elizabeth is going to be fine, more or less. Marriage is the only way to fully hang onto her status or improve it, to be sure, but she's never going to be in the straits of a Charlotte.

I think the point of the Mr Collins subplot is not that Elizabeth is being impractical about her own situation, but that not all women—not most women, not even most within Elizabeth's own social group—can so easily shrug off the opportunity represented by even someone as pathetically repellent as Mr Collins. As circumstances grow more desperate, even a Mr Collins starts to look appealing.

Jane, in her Jane way, puts it pretty concisely:

You do not make allowance enough for difference of situation and temper. Consider Mr Collins’s respectability, and Charlotte’s prudent, steady character. Remember that she is one of a large family; that as to fortune it is a most eligible match; and be ready to believe, for everybody’s sake, that she may feel something like regard and esteem for our cousin.

Ok, I've been thinking about this question a lot and there's not enough evidence in P&P to fully support any answer, but I wanted to hear yours: What is the Gardiners' economic status/How rich are the Gardiners?

Obviously, Mr. Gardiner is a tradesman, but I'm desperately curious to know the extent of his wealth. Does he have a similar income to Mr. Bennet but is just more frugal? Would he have been able to take in his niece(s)/sister when Mr. Bennet died? Does he have Bingley-level tradesman wealth without the massive lump sum Bingley inherited from his father? Darcy assumes that Mr. and Mrs. Gardiner are gentry - but like, Bennet gentry or Woodhouse gentry or Lucas gentry. JANE SKIMPED ON THE GARDINER INFORMATION AND NOW WE'LL NEVER KNOW. So what are your headcanons surrounding the Gardiners' wealth?

Really, the most important Gardiner headcanon that the Gardiner children are immediately charmed by Darcy and think he's like ~the coolest~

thanks queen <3

Six months later: hi!

My opinion is that the Gardiners are very well-off in terms of the usual incomes of the gentry. It's difficult to pin down an exact income range because I'm not a historian or economist, but the literary evidence is pretty suggestive IMO.

For one, Mr Bennet has no trouble believing that Mr Gardiner could have shelled out ten thousand pounds for Lydia; the problem is the struggle of repaying him, as Mr Bennet would feel morally obligated to do. The impression I get is that this would be a lot of money for Mr Gardiner to come up with, but everyone accepts that he could quickly do it, where Mr Bennet could not. And Mrs Gardiner does insist that Mr Gardiner would have paid the money if Darcy had let him, which again suggests that it was reasonably doable for him.

When Elizabeth and Jane first pass the news to Mrs Bennet and try to express the debt of gratitude they all owe Mr Gardiner, Mrs Bennet's response is a bitter remark about how if her brother had not married and had children of his own, "I and my children must have had all his money, you know; and it is the first time we have ever had anything from him except a few presents."

Aside from what this reveals about her character (especially given the remarkable understatement of "a few presents" given everything they've done for Jane and Elizabeth), I think "all his money" suggests an awareness that there would have been quite a bit to inherit if Mr Gardiner hadn't had the temerity to, uh, have children.

The summer tourism journey also doesn't seem to represent a severe expense for the Gardiners, though it would be outside the realm of possibility for some. They're not super frugal, but they're also not going to pull a Sir William Lucas and abandon the source of their income, or take an estate or something to distance themselves from trade, and end up unable to provide security for their children or any significant luxuries for their loved ones and themselves. So the Gardiners do make practical decisions like living near Mr Gardiner's warehouses and continuing his business in town.

Darcy (in Elizabeth's opinion) mistakes the Gardiners for "people of fashion" rather than gentry per se. This is interesting because Darcy originally considered the entire Meryton neighborhood, including the local gentry, as people noticeably not of fashion. This concept of people of fashion is typically more about fashionable high society than trade vs gentry IMO.

For instance, Mr Hurst is described as "a man of more fashion than fortune"—i.e. someone with high society credentials from his family, but not a lot of money, though he has enough to maintain a house in Grosvenor Street. (I think the implication is that the Hursts considered their status and Louisa Bingley's 20,000 l. from trade a fair exchange.) So likely, Darcy is not confusing the Gardiners for minor rural gentry, but even higher-status people if Elizabeth is analyzing his reaction correctly, based on their appearance, apparel, demeanor, etc.

This is definitely a time when wealthy people in trade could pass for people of fashion, but I think it would ordinarily take some doing, and though the Gardiners are stylish and relatively young, they aren't trying hard in the way that the Bingleys are. Yet Darcy, who went on a whole tangent about trade cooties during his proposal, can't even identify the Gardiners as people in trade upon meeting them—that's important.

(It's also significant, of course, that he's surprised to discover their exact connection aka that they're Mrs Bennet's relatives, which is honestly pretty fair. In any case, he evaluates Mr and Mrs Gardiner on their own considerable merits by this point.)

So again, I get the sense that the Gardiners are quite well-off people who spend their money on nice enough things that they can be mistaken for a completely different class than their own, but are not specifically aiming for that or super extravagant, either. Their habits seem rather similar to Darcy's, actually—I don't think they're anywhere near as wealthy, but they're wealthy enough that they can approach major expenditures fairly casually, as he does. But unlike Darcy, it will always be contingent on Mr Gardiner's business success and they have to plan around his work and the possibility of sudden changes in terms of his work.

I personally think that Mr Gardiner would undoubtedly have been able to take care of his sister and nieces in the worst case scenario. Six women used to a high standard of living (we know Mrs Bennet is extravagant; it's only Mr Bennet's frugality that keeps the Bennets out of debt as it is) would probably be a strain, but I don't think beyond the income level indicated, even accounting for the needs of his immediate family.

When Mrs Bennet is dramatizing herself during the Lydia disaster, she tells Mr Gardiner, "if you are not kind to us, brother, I do not know what we shall do," and he assures her of his affection for both her and her entire family. This could be seen as a sort of empty redirection that avoids promising anything, especially given that her catastrophizing fantasy scenarios are extremely unlikely, but I think that's a misread of his character.

I see his reply as a tactful assurance that, in the (improbable) event of Mr Bennet dying in a duel, his affection for her and her daughters would indeed ensure his protection of her and her daughters. There's no doubt from anyone that he's capable of doing this, though it would certainly mean a change in their style of living that Mrs Bennet would vocally resent.

So while this isn't super-specific, I hope it helped!

Normally I don't need to do this, but I would like to add a sort of credit/disclaimer: I didn't initially notice all these signs and my understanding of the Gardiners' standard of living and general circumstances was, I believe, strongly influenced by JulieW of the Life and Times board at Republic of Pemberley back in the earlyish 2000s (maybe about 2006?).

The L&T board is sadly gone (or was the last few times I checked), though ROP clings to life, but she knew a lot more about Georgian history and culture than I ever will, and these references to the Gardiners' prosperity seemed really glaring once she pointed them out.

(Her analysis of Pemberley's age, architecture, and general class significance was also really influential and I'm still really sad that I have to rely on the perfidy of memory about it.)

[bethanydelleman]

Charles Musgrove: Anne said no, so then I-

Mr. Collins: Proposed to her best friend two days later?

Charles Musgrove: What! No! Who would do that? After a respectable amount of time, I proposed to and married her younger sister.

Mr. Collins: Oh... but have you ever invited Miss Elliot over so she can see what she missed out on by not marrying you?

Charles Musgrove:....

Mr. Collins: Well?

Charles Musgrove: Um, we do have her over, but because we both like her? And she's great with the kids too.

Mr. Collins: Huh. So, Lady Catherine de Bourgh-

Charles Musgrove: Sorry, I think I hear my wife calling me. Mary!

[drchucktingle]

Good evening Dr. Tingle! Would you ever like to see a film adaption of Bury Your Gays? I think it would be so neat (especially with all of the tv and movie references present in the novel). If there ever was a movie, who would you want hypothetically cast?

HELLO BUCKAROO this is always a fun question to consider actors for a book adaption. when writing i sometimes CAST IN MY HEAD and sometimes it is just kind of a made up buckaroo. there are really only two characters in BURY YOUR GAYS that were cast in my head while writing and i will mention those below.

ultimately WHOEVER was to trot in these rolls i would be happy with, so lets just consider this a fun way through imagination. i will say that i would prefer to cast queer actors, but also i know the business of hollywood means sometimes that does not work out to get the movie on screens. if bury your gays was turned into a movie i would really have no say in any of this anyway, but queer actors would be my preference when possible.

despite all of that, when writing MISHA, the actor in my head was NOT a queer actor as far as i know (although for some reason us queer buckaroos have given him a pass to play queer characters which i think is very funny and interesting, i guess we just love him a lot regardless) anyway lets kick it off there

MISHA BYRNE

when writing BURY YOUR GAYS i was picturing none other than BILL HADER. maybe it is because i was watchin a lot of BARRY at the time, not exactly sure why but thats the truth.

that being said i think i would be great to get a queer lead in there. so if that was the case i would say LEE PACE, and of course we have the ultimate fan cast MISHA COLLINS

TARA ITO

this is the other character that was FULLY IN MY HEAD as i wrote it and mentally cast from day one. it also kind of coincides with the trot of a tv show i was watching at the time which was PEN 15. so tara in my mind was always MAYA ERSKINE

ZEKE ROMERO

not exactly a known actor in my head, but when considering options i think that OSCAR ISSAC would be very good

JACK HAYS

there are a few options for this, but i keep thinking of a very clean shaven MURRAY BARTLETT in a suit. another options would be ZACHARY QUINTO especially if we get chris pine as chris oak because thats just some incredible META KIRK AND SPOCK action for the sledgehammer scene.

now onto the dang villains.

CHRIS OAK

okay so obviously we gotta cast CHRIS PINE in this role (i might have an in). however if that does not work out i would like to suggest COLMAN DOMINGO

THE SMOKER / UNCLE KEITH

would be neat to have the monsters also play their inspiration. in the case of THE SMOKER i think STEVE BUSCEMI would be incredible

MRS. WHY / AGENT Y

last buck not least i propose ELIZABETH DEBICKI as MRS. WHY

if you have not read bury your gays yet but now you are DANG INTERESTED then you can get it here. thanks for reading buckaroos feel free to reply with your own castings. I AM NO EXPERT you know my art just as well as i do so i am curious your thoughts. LOVE IS REAL

[firawren]

What do we think happened when Mr. and Mrs. Collins showed up at Lady Catherine's house to drink tea and explained that Elizabeth stayed at home alone with a headache?

Did Darcy excuse himself immediately? That would have looked super suspicious, at least to Charlotte. Not that I think he would have cared if anyone guessed what he was going to do, because he was certain Elizabeth would say yes, so in his mind, they're all going to know about the proposal in like an hour anyway.

Or did Darcy drink tea with the group for maybe 10 minutes, hyping himself up to go propose—now's your chance, you can do this!—and then abruptly be like "Well thanks for the tea! See ya!" and rush out of there? This would also be very confusing to his companions, though maybe not as suspicious. Is this more or less rude than excusing himself from tea right at the beginning? It seems more rude to my modern sensibilities, but who knows.

I feel another P&P missing scene ficlet coming on...

[oifaaa]

So I'm watching pride and prejudice (the BBC miniseries) for the umpteenth time and I never noticed before how Mr Darcy actually looks like he's about to cry as he's walking away from Mr Collins house after lizzy rejects his proposal and it's making me laugh so hard like awww did your feelings get hurt Mr Darcy did your amazing proposal idea get completely shut down that mean miss Elisabeth keep it together until you're atleast out of view Mr Darcy

[bennetsbonnet]

It's surprising and, perhaps, a little depressing for a book so ostensibly beloved and held up as one of the finest in English literature, that Pride and Prejudice is so widely misquoted and misunderstood. It seems to be primarily viewed as a romance in the public's imagination, rather than the comedy of manners it truly is.

A large part of these misconceptions are admittedly, due to its various adaptations. I think a lot of people are surprised when they read the novel for the first time and discover that Mr Collins does not possess an affinity for boiled potatoes; that the proposal scene does not take place in the rain; that the second proposal is not made by Mr Darcy stumbling over his words at dawn and, ultimately, that he does not emerge from a lake in a wet white shirt. Nor is he really a brooding romantic hero.

The adaptations have had such a huge impact on the popular perception of Pride and Prejudice, that all of these products can be found on only the first two pages of an Etsy search of the title. All very nice products, I am sure. However, none of them contain quotes found in the original novel:

(quite why you'd want to be seen in a 'barely tolerable' hoodie I don't know but... each to their own... )

I question how widely-liked the actual novel is, if those who are keen to walk around in merch or decorate their homes inspired by Pride and Prejudice, are doing so with references that are nowhere to be found in the book's pages. Adaptations are part of many of our paths to falling in love with the novel; they were part of mine. But there are so many hilarious quotes contained within the first few chapters alone, you soon realise that nothing can live up to Austen's quick, witty dialogue or her observational comedy.

Yet, even when the novel is correctly quoted, it is not always done in an apt manner. Jane Austen was deemed important enough by the Bank of England to warrant her own banknote. Released in 2017, it looks like this:

I remember the controversy about the portrait, and how little it actually looks like the only (incomplete) drawing we have of Jane (which was said by those who knew her to not even resemble her all that well), but that's another matter. I'm most interested in the quote from Pride and Prejudice beneath it:

Let's put the quote in context. It is taken from chapter 11, and spoken by Caroline Bingley who is trying, unsuccessfully, to capture the attention of Mr Darcy.

Why did she pick up a book? Because Mr Darcy did:

'Darcy took up a book; Miss Bingley did the same'

How much enjoyment did she derive from the book? Not a great deal, apparently:

'Miss Bingley’s attention was quite as much engaged in watching Mr. Darcy’s progress through his book, as in reading her own; and she was perpetually either making some inquiry, or looking at his page. She could not win him, however, to any conversation; he merely answered her question, and read on.'

And now comes the actual passage from which the quote is taken, which tells us why Caroline chose that particular book:

'At length, quite exhausted by the attempt to be amused with her own book, which she had only chosen because it was the second volume of his, she gave a great yawn and said, “How pleasant it is to spend an evening in this way! I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library."'

On the surface, such a quote—especially taken in isolation—would invariably lead you to believe that said character was an avid reader. However, the context demonstrates that Miss Bingley is far from a bookworm.

If you were left in any doubt, however, her next action surely confirms it:

'No one made any reply. She then yawned again, threw aside her book, and cast her eyes round the room in quest for some amusement'

As soon as Caroline realises that her quest to capture Mr Darcy's affection is futile, she throws her book away entirely; perhaps there are more enjoyable pursuits than reading, after all.

So, a quote deemed to have such importance as to be immortalised forever alongside Jane Austen on the currency of an entire nation (the design of which will likely be used for several decades) is so important in the context of the novel that it is... uh... *checks notes* ignored entirely. Right.

I mean, I don't necessarily understand why the quote had to be about reading but if it was, I could argue that a quote from Mr Darcy in chapter eight, about how extensive reading improves the mind could be far more sincere. Or why not one of the numerous lovely quotes from the novel? Obviously, an agenda was set and a quote needed to be found to match it.

Still, it is quite ironic indeed that reading actually opens your eyes to how ridiculous a choice of quote was made.

Anyway, what is my overarching point? Well, I think, largely due to its various adaptations, a majority of people believe they know the story of Pride and Prejudice. But shockingly few, despite it being consistently ranked as one of the most popular books, actually understand it on the level which it deserves to be.

This post was not intended to bash adaptations, it is absolutely fine to like them! But they are, by their very nature, going to differ from the book. That is inevitable. Yet, I think it's quite sad when people watch a film or series and believe they can possibly understand the story on the same level. Spoiler alert: you cannot. I know books are a luxury and reading is time-consuming, but Pride and Prejudice is out of copyright now. PDFs are abundant, as are audiobooks if you cannot sit and read!

Put some time and effort into understanding the novel. I promise not a single second of it will be wasted; you will gain a deeper admiration for Jane Austen's talent as an author, and you will fall in love anew with the many wonderful characters she so beautifully brought to life.

[misscrawfords]

I was listening to Pride and Prejudice on my drive back from my mother's today and it's been so long since I've actually read the novel as opposed to engaged with one or other adaptation...

Goodness, it's good, isn't it? And Elizabeth is so much more complex a character than she is often presented in adaptations.

The thing that was standing out to me today - I was listening to from when Mr. Collins proposes to Charlotte and I stopped just when Elizabeth was talking to Colonel Fitzwilliam at Rosings - was the chapter which is just Jane and Elizabeth talking about Bingley. This gets cut from adaptations or so condensed to be meaningless, but it's incredible. It's just a whole chapter of the sisters chewing over why Bingley ghosted Jane (for lack of a better term) and what Caroline's motivations were and the thing that gets me is that they're both right. Jane is right that Bingley can't be blamed for being a friendly young man and that he had no malicious intentions but Elizabeth is also right that young men can be thoughtless in their dealings with women who have less freedom than them and their thoughtlessness can do real hurt. (She's also right about Caroline, of course.) It struck me as such a modern issue. Maybe I've just been thinking about the unwitting hurt that thoughtless young men can cause recently, but everything is so complicated. Bingley is a flake who makes a mistake with regards to Jane but he's also a genuinely lovely young man who makes it right in the end - he's still on his own journey through life which he will continue with Jane. Jane herself lets her desire to see the best in others cause her to see friendship where it isn't, but being deceived in a friend is not so uncommon, is it? And she's not stupid or weak. Heck, she endures her heartbreak being talked about openly by her mother in public for months silently and without rancour. And she does it all without ever resenting Bingley! Jane's the strongest character in the whole novel and an inspiration to the rest of us - FIGHT ME on this!

The other thing I really picked up on was what an important moment in Elizabeth's character development Charlotte's engagement is. It actually kind of breaks my heart - her best friend makes a life choice that she can't support but has to and nothing will ever be the same again between them. It's the first dent into Elizabeth's world view that forces her to see that people are different from her and can make different decisions and this is okay and not just something she can laugh at. It's so relatable in terms of life events - when a close friend marries and then when they have a baby, these things absolutely still do alter friendships. Elizabeth gets over it and even enjoys seeing Charlotte in Hunsford but we are frequently reminded by the narrator that the previous confidences they enjoyed will never be the same again. It's a really big moment for Elizabeth and really the first event in the novel to start to shake her foundations of her comfortable existence. The other two are Bingley's desertion of Jane and Wickham's decision to pursue Mary King over her. By the time she goes to Hunsford, she is prepared in a way for the final massive shock to the foundations of The World According to Lizzy Bennet, not that she knows it. Such is growing up.

And OMG Lady Catherine is SO vulgar and inappropriate! She is a direct parallel to Mrs. Bennet and the rest of the Bennets. Just as Elizabeth feels accute embarrassment at the Netherfield Ball, Mr. Darcy is feeling exactly the same at Rosings. Beautifully done. But their awareness of what is appropriate behaviour is something that unifies Darcy and Elizabeth even if Darcy massively fails to behave like a human around Elizabeth. Pride and Prejudice is such an expose and examination of "how to behave in social situations". There is nobody who doesn't come under scrutiny and pretty much every type of behaviour is gone over with a fine tooth comb.

Sometimes I feel almost ashamed when people ask me what my favourite novel is and I say "Pride and Prejudice" because it's such a damn cliche. I should say something heavier or more obscure or at least I should say it's Persuasion, the "thinking girl"'s favourite Austen. But P&P is so special to me on so many levels and you know what? It is a MASTERFULLY written book.